#2 Freelancer Spotlight - How to work from anywhere with Danni Osborne

Hello and welcome to the freelance ads club podcast with me your host Aggie Meroni. Whether you're a veteran freelance ads manager, or just thinking about dipping your toe into the world of self employment, this podcast is for you. Every week, I'll be speaking about my own experiences as a freelance as manager, sharing a freelancer spotlights where I'll have a chat with one of the amazing members of the Freelancers Club, where I'll be asking guests to share their knowledge and experience in ads across all platforms and business. Don't forget to follow and subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. This is the first Freelancer spotlights episode of season two of the freelance ads club podcast. And today I'm joined by Danny Osborne, founder of dough digital, Danny is a member of the freelance ads club, and I had to get her on because she has grown and is continuing to grow, continue to grow growing a very successful freelance business. And she's done all this being based in various locations around the world. So Danny is based in London, but spends, you know blocks of time in other countries not always in the developed world, which obviously has its own challenges as well. So listen in to my chat with Danny, she shares lots of wisdom from her experiences of working in different countries, things I haven't even really considered about what's involved in moving your business to different time zones, different locations, different levels of technology and connection, all that kind of thing. So really interesting. Listen, if I do say so myself, I love my chat with Danny tune in and hear what she had to say. Hi, Danny, thank you so much for joining me today. Hey, thanks for having me. So I'm really excited about our episode today because I'm going to be speaking to Danny all about her inverted commas digital nomad lifestyle, which I know you hate the sound of. But before we get into that, do you want to just give us a bit of an intro, tell us who you are a bit about what you do and how you ended up where you are? Sure. Thank you for having me. So I'm Danny Osbourne, I own do digital marketing or do digital, which is a luxury ecommerce agency. So we service email marketing, paid ads across Google and social ecommerce strategy, and worked with a lot of E commerce luxury brands on Shopify. And I started my career, many moons ago doing sort of full service digital in house for retail conferences, which was fun, but not overly for me. And then managed to get a job at nit supported lots of visual merchandising ecommerce strategy was way back when ecommerce was not as big as it is today. And then have moved to matches fashion as well. So luxury fashion and works with lots of smaller brands along the way working on Shopify stores, building them learn to code at one point. So have been Yeah, in the E commerce world for a long, long time. But it's forever changing every day something is changing. So what I was doing when I first started is very different from what I'm doing now. So yeah, amazing. And the reason that we are talking today is because I put a, I guess a shout out in the freelance ads club and I said, who wants to come join me on the podcasts like come and pitch me what you want to talk about. And Daddy wrote to me and said, Well, I've just I was with some friends at the weekend and they want to go freelance, they can have a digital nomad lifestyle, because that's what they see me as I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. Tell me more. Because I follow daddy's personal Instagram, which I'm not going to share because I'm sure Danny doesn't want loads of random people following her. But there are always amazing photos on there of like, I've been through at the moment and I was like, oh my god, how'd you do that? So that is what we're gonna be talking about today. I'm gonna be like your friends when you were with them asking you all the questions. Yeah, no, it's good. I am a sucker for the sun. I am. Yeah, I love to live by the sea. I love the waves. I'm a big surfer. So yeah, uh, travelling has kind of been my thing for a long time. So before I even started my ecommerce career, I used to travel a lot, did a whole round the world trip as you do when you're young and and did the whole backpacker thing and I kind of got the bug for travelling then. And then over the is even being in London was forever going on city breaks are trying to get to different places and experience different cultures as much as possible, which I love. Like I love finding out about different cultures seeing new things. And when I was working in house like I had this sort of realisation that as much as I love working for big corporations and smaller businesses in house, it meant that I had to be in an office somewhere. And I had to be at my desk nine to five, and it's a very different world now to what it was, before I went freelance before I started my digital nomad life. But I knew even before dreaded, COVID hit and everybody went sort of digital nomad crazy that that was the life for me, I needed to not be in an office nine to five, it's not my ideal way of working. And yeah, exploring the world while still do I do and what I love to do, like I love working with small businesses with Shopify, getting them up and running on all the different platforms, helping them with their sort of E commerce strategy and really pushing what they're doing. But I also love to travel, I love to see the world. So I have managed to sort of, yeah, take a leap of faith and kind of left left London, and now kind of spend a bit of time in Ibiza, which is where I've spent a lot of time over my life, back and forth here as much as I can be. But then also like travel still so much. So last winter, we did la New Zealand, barley on the way back, and then the winter before we spent quite a bit entire time in Mexico surfing while still working. So it's definitely not easy life choice. So Instagram influencers, which probably makes you believe, but it is it is working. For me, it works for me to go and play in the ways to sort of de stress after challenging cool with meta. But yeah, I am yeah, I just realised that the sort of travelling and being able to work, and I'm very fortunate now that it's become the norm. Like when, when before COVID hit, and we all kind of had to work from home, it was a very different space. And some of the clients that I had back then probably weren't as open to me being halfway around the world than they are now. And even to this day, I've got clients that I've never met in person. So everybody seems very sort of open to it, which is good. Good for me. I don't think I've met most of my clients. I think it's just, yeah, it's just a really different world. Like on Zoom, obviously, I see their faces, but I've not actually met a lot of them in person. Yeah, which I think is a benefit of the industry. We're in that we service e commerce. It's good in a way because you could work from anywhere, but it's 24/7 as well as an industry that just doesn't sleep. It's not like standard retail that you have the shop opening hours that people are buying online all the time. I mean, the biggest like thing that I would struggle with, I think because I even like mess up when I go to Italy. And there's a one hour time difference as everyone in the freelance as club knows, because I've got times wrong for calls and stuff is how do you manage the time difference? Like how do you work around? Is it the UK hours that you keep, and you just kind of work around those wherever you are? Yes. And the majority of my clients are sort of European, UK, mostly UK. But I do have people in Canada, US. So juggling the time difference with them, wherever I am is always going to be tricky. I think the last trip when I was in New Zealand, that is probably the hardest because it is so far away. And I yeah, just I'm very flexible in the way that I work in terms of, I can't stick to the nine to five, because it just wouldn't work with the lifestyle that I've got. But most of my clients, they understand that like nine to five, the usual working hours is when they can contact me. And for example, in New Zealand, I would be working when I first got up and before bed, so it's not ideal. It's definitely not for everybody. But then it gave me the freedom and the day that I had loads of work on it obviously had to carry on but it gave me the freedom in the day to go and spend it with family or go and see things and just slightly, I guess being more flexible in my approach to working and not being so strict on it. But there are downsides to that in terms of Yeah, waking up first thing and getting straight into work like that's that's pretty challenging. Like in Mexico, the time difference meant that there was times where I had to wake up and pretty much get on a call as soon as I open my eyes. So Tommy Yeah, so my brain probably wasn't engaged. I haven't had caffeine. So it comes with them pros and cons like everything in life, it comes with pros and cons. But for me, I think, yes, seeing the world, kind of that is the biggest pro. And you some, yeah, challenges of getting up very early or going to bed really late to make sure that I can sort of service the clients that we've got, I don't mind that too much. But the time difference is, is definitely hard. I think one of the tips I've got as well is, if you use Google Calendar, you can, for example, have two time zones within your calendar. And that was pretty game changing for me in terms of I always keep one in the UK, and then one wherever I am. So then I can hopefully like when somebody says, Can I have a call at three o'clock in the afternoon, I can quickly take a look and see whether it's two o'clock in the morning or something. So yeah, yeah, I think just being a little more organised on on timings and making sure that the calendars are like today, but saying that I've also had things where, like, I use Calendly a lot to book my diary. So you've got to make sure that wherever you're going next, or whatever days, you're going to be in different places, you've updated, your calendar calendar is updated. And then people can tend to book in whether I am free. So yeah. My brain would be not like that definitely an interesting, extra challenge on top of running a business. Because one thing I always see on I think LinkedIn and Instagram actually really bad for this is I know you hate the name digital nomad, but basically, you know, like people that work and travel at the same time is always and you're actually the exception of anyone actually, I know. It's always like early 20s, no long term partner. No real, I don't know, they're just starting their career. Maybe they're not. I don't know, they're just young for it. Not that you're not young. That's gonna sound really bad. But, you know, it's, you know, they're like, in that traveller mode, like they are literally backpacking around the world with their laptops, doing these Instagram shots. So I'm making like millions of pounds and just doing nothing, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But from what I've seen, like you're with your husband, and you're travelling together, which is unusual, which I think's amazing. So does your does your husband, like have his own business as well? Just to make that compatible? Yes. So I think the reason that I'm shy away from the digital nomad term is for that reason, exactly. I'm not 20 anymore, as much as I like to think sometimes I am. And I don't have a backpack when I go, it's not quite that. Yeah, I like the life of luxury these days. So it is a bit different to when I was 20. And I was going out doing that sort of backpacker thing. Like, I've got more responsibilities in terms of the business, I want to grow this business in a certain way. I've got Pete employees in the UK. So there's lots of different I guess, things that make me not the typical digital nomads. But that being said that term is I kind of think it's quite loose. So the people that I meet when I'm away and travelling are all sorts of business owners, like the definitely get the sort of typical influencer digital nomad, taking more pictures than doing well. But then you get some really interesting people from all sorts of industries. And because remote working is like so susceptible these days. It's just yeah, a real mix of people and a real mix of ages. So I don't think being a digital nomad is kind of the 20 year old person as much as it is for Yeah, 56 year olds, it's probably because the 20 year olds are the ones that are the most visible, because they're the ones on social media and their bikinis or whatever, you know, in the board shorts, like posing all the time. So everyone's like, No, I don't really fit into that mould. But as you say, it's really varied. And I know there's actually quite a lot of schemes from different countries to encourage people to work there is no no Portugal's got scheme that you can relocate there. So I can digital nomad visa, or arrangement or something. And during COVID, there were countries with no restrictions. So you could go and work I think Mexico and Dominican Republic from memory were like really popular that people would just go and I was like, Oh, if I didn't have a kid, I'd go. Yeah, it's a bit harder with like, when you have a two year old? Yes, I can imagine. Yeah, I have no experience of that. Oh, I think just put me in the pool, like you just swim. And I'll just try and work. I think yeah. And like you were saying previously around the type of work that you can do is it digital nomads. We obviously as managers, we work in the digital space which kind of plays into being run remote work is it's it's great for us. And yeah, along the way, I've met all sorts of people. Like there's a lot of coders, there's a lot of people that work in digital because they can. But then there's also things if you're just starting out and want to be a digital nomads, like there's so many things like customer service I've got, I can't even think graphic designers like there's so many options of roles that you can get into. And I don't necessarily think it needs to be like a junior roles or just starting out. I think there's there is lots of scope like I'm definitely not Junior just starting up and then along, though that, I think, yeah, there's there's lots of opportunities. And if it's something that somebody's really keen to do, like I've had so many people reach out to me on LinkedIn, around how do you get started, like, what can I do and like, I don't know where to start to become a digital nomad or a remote remote worker. And I would say, have a conversation with your current business, because it might be that they are open to the fact that you're not in the office anyway, you might be in two days a week, but for a month, they don't need you in so that you can carry on doing it. So I think it's it is hard to set up your business and become a digital nomad. But if you're already employed by somebody, definitely have a conversation with your employer, and see whether you can have that flexibility to be able to go and sort of test the waters do a couple of weeks a week away with with working remotely. So I think, yeah, there's lots of options. Because there's an agency I did some contracting with couple of years ago, it was during the pandemic. But the whole team was remote. So the whole team was from all over the world. And there was like an English guy living in Vietnam, and there was a guy from Portugal and someone in South America. Yeah. And that was amazing. Because it literally had no impact at all on the work that was being delivered. And they were very proudly a remote first agency. So they didn't even have an office. So yeah, so yeah, and I think I think that's it, I think you can, I'm keen to attract the best talent, like I am, the mind agency has started to grow in terms of where we've got quite sort of a lot going on and a lot coming up with clients. And I don't want to have one office where I can only get a certain amount of people from, I guess, like 50 miles away, Max, because people don't want to be travelling into somewhere like I've got the option now as a remote worker in a remote office to get the best of the best from wherever they are in the world. And I think that that's kind of an exciting thing for me as an agency owner, but also kind of nice for somebody that might live, I don't know, in the middle of nowhere, because they like to be that remote. Or somebody that like me loves being near the sea, like everybody's so different. I think remote agencies are exciting, exciting, because you can really get the best of the best and start working with so many different people from anywhere. So that's yeah, I love that. I don't know as well. I mean, I don't know if this is just because I sort of came into E commerce at the beginning of the pandemic. So I don't know any different. But I don't actually know any brands that go into people's offices now to meet their team. So everything is done remotely now like on calls, unless they're like huge brands maybe, or huge agencies that have amazing offices in Covent Garden or Soho. I don't know if people like travel now, because even as an E commerce business, you don't need to be in a central hub. There are so many ecommerce brands that have like big rural fulfilment centres and, you know, manufacturing gets brought into the countryside, and they just do it all from there. So it's like it's decentralised from cities anyway. So it makes sense. All services that support them are remote. I mean, that goes for service based businesses as well. So for the ads, managers that support consultancies and everything, and even kind of like the big name coaches and things like that they will live in the countryside because why wouldn't you so much nicer? I think one of the biggest things with remote working digital nomad lifestyle, being online, is making sure you've got a really good community around you. Like even if you're just going freelance and doing something else, even if you've got that community around you. It makes such a huge difference because being a nomad or being a remote worker or being an ads manager is freelancing and kind of being on your own, like a freelancer on your own. If you're just on your own and not talking to other people or not interacting with others, it's a very lonely place to be. And also I find like I learned the most from just chatting to other people or chatting to other people in businesses or chatting to other ads managers. They've tried something that I've not tried. So I think yeah, there's definitely like the office space used to be very good for collaboration and starting conversations around. I don't know what to try and what not to try, which sometimes can get lost being remote and being digital nomad and being solo ads managers. So I think definitely find, like some advice from my side would be to find a community. And I've been lucky along the way, like I used to work in house, and it would, it was great. And we were all working for the same sort of luxury brands and things like that. So we had that in common. But what I found since going freelance and starting the agency is find your community. And I'm in quite a few different ones now. So I mean, once for ads managers like yours. Yeah, the freelance Arts Club join us. Which is great, and a really safe space to ask loads of questions. And then I mean, other ones, which are really techie. And then I'm in bonds just around Shopify. Other ones like, lots around like luxury, and E commerce and fashion, making sure that I'm aware of what's going on in that space as well. So I think having a community and making sure that you're, you're still getting that interaction from other people, although you are remote, and although you're a digital nomad that you would get inside an office is kind of key and something that I'd highly recommend doing. So as we're recording this now, where are you? Currently I am in Ibiza, I will be in London. So I think from what I know, of what I've seen on your Instagram, so correct me if I'm wrong, you do quite long stints in places. So it's not that you kind of spent a week or like a few days and then move you kind of put base yourself somewhere for a longer period of time. Is that right? Yes. And no. I mean, in the UK based on I'm usually in the UK in London, although saying that I move around the UK. I'm always on the move always in a suitcase. And then it depends where I'm going. And it depends on the reason. So sometimes, we like the trip, I've just done a couple of days in LA and a bit here and a bit there and, and a bit of a holiday in between so but then we were in Mexico for a couple of months. I like being in the same sort of place for a bit longer, because then that gives me a bit more stability when it comes to working. And it also gives me time to really explore where I am like, as much as I love travelling, there's no point me going and then just sitting there being online. So yeah, I think in terms of wherever I am, I do like to be for a couple of weeks to really experience it. But yeah, I can't I am not so good in the UK. In March, February, March. It's too grey. It's awful. It's literally the first sunny day I think we've had in like 10 months. So if you're coming back, so yeah, coming back to and then I don't know, I'm not a fan of July and August Adobe through. It's too busy. Yeah, there's too many tourists. Yeah. So yeah, being remote has its plus points. So I can kind of pick and choose where I want to be. So do you have a home in London? And then you'd maybe Airbnb it out. Like when you go to other places? Or how do you organise your accommodation when you travel? Yeah, so yeah, I've got a London base. And I when we travel, like for example, we read to Mexico, and it's very set up over there for sort of digital nomads and people working remote. There's lots of people from sort of North America and Canada that we found over the it's kind of gone over to serve. And there's, I guess, lots of different things that you can do we tend to before we go look where it's got good Wi Fi, cuz that is essential. And then we look to see, I guess, where we want to explore, like, I want to be surfing as much as possible. So I try and find places that I can. And we base it around that. But there's lots of things like we've stayed in hotels, we stayed in sort of more like co working spaces, but they've got sort of accommodation with it. It depends and it very much depends on where in the world you want to go. Like and and your budgets. Like if you go to sort of Asia you can get some really beautiful places that don't cost as much if you go through America, it's gonna cost a fortune. So yeah, it very much depends on budgets and what you want to see but 100% Look for something with good Wi Fi, that'd be devastating. The other thing, which we took with us on a couple of trips is a little like, Wi Fi, Wi Fi internet pack, which you can buy, like credit like a mobile phone, and then you can always talk Wi Fi. Or if you're going to be somewhere for a longer period of time, buy a local SIM card. And then you can usually get sort of Wi Fi and internet based on that as well. So, yeah, depends on where in the world you want to go. There are so many good places, it's good to have backups. So even if it if you're going somewhere that's maybe more developed, or you know, it's in a metropolitan metropolis, like in a city, you never know, there might be an outage one day if your signal and you really don't want to have to deal with that and try and explain to clients why you can't deliver something or have that call or whatever. It's good just to have that security blanket, isn't it. And I think that leads on quite nicely into what to do about clients. Because I think the main thing with clients is be quite open about where you're going to be and be quite open about your your timezone, because you don't want people like you're obviously gonna be working your calendar to work as best you can with your clients. That if somebody wants some last minute thing at 5pm UK time, but actually you can't do it because you're away, then just be open and honest about where you're going to be and what sort of timezone you're going to be in and your working hours. So yeah, when whenever we've been away, like the Mexico sort of trip, we made sure that people would know that we would be online from a certain time, and then they they'd be able to get access to us after that. So then they're not panicking or stressing, but we're not getting back to them. So I think that's yeah, just be open with communication. I think it's not a bad thing, either. If you say that I'm only available these hours, because then it's kind of got quite strict boundaries. And they kind of know that you're just a year away, so they have to stick to that with no WhatsApps at like, 3am I haven't seen the shirt. It's like tough, like, I'm not sending it to you to wake up. Yeah, I think that's the same even if you're not travelling, like some people are gonna be on call 24/7, which I noticed, never sleeps, but we have to sleep. Yeah, but I think sometimes, you know, there are things that come up sometimes, where people like, send your whatsapp and say, Oh, could you just do this? I mean, everyone's had that at least once. It's like, No, I actually can't do just do that, because I'm not around. So I think it's quite good to remind people that you're not available. 24/7? Yeah, yes, definitely. I also like to think like, I think this about my team, everybody works hard. They like to get things done. And we do as much as we can for clients. But on the flip side, we need to take a break, we need to go and play in the waves, and enjoy life, because then we come back feeling refreshed and with new ideas like it's just healthier, healthier way of working, then being on call 24/7 is just not the way to go. So you mentioned you've got some team members as well. Is it difficult to communicate with them? When you're away? Is it harder to coordinate when you've got your clients on one side and your team on the other? Or? Yeah, definitely like the they is a relatively new team team members, as in new within this year. And yeah, we communicate, I think quite well in terms of we use Slack, we use Asana, we do zoom check ins with each other. So the communication is, is very open. And I think we it wouldn't work otherwise, I think that there definitely has to be that availability in terms of making sure that we are like I'm available to them for training purposes or making sure that I've passed on information from clients and stuff. So yeah, we've we've put processes in place to make sure that wherever we are, even because they're around the UK, so it's not like we have an office space where they can go in but we all have sort of team communication, they communicate with each other on different things. And then yeah, we kind of have the client side of it as well. But again, that's quite an open conversation with clients with what's launching what's working, what's not working, what assets we need. That yeah, lots of communication and lots of processes that had to go into, like new processes that that aren't there when you're sort of on your own and dealing with it. But I guess whenever you expand your team, that happens, right? You need processes so you can work together and it's seamless and you don't duplicate work and everyone knows where they stand and I guess it's just a process that's adapted to how your team work. So every team would be different Anyway, wouldn't it? So? Yeah, that's like a whole different, like podcast episode, isn't it? The processes needed to run a team? Yeah, yeah, I would love to have I used to have a team in house. So building out a team with to do digital, I've kind of got experience of it, but it doesn't make it any easier. And it doesn't make it any easier being remote. There's always challenges. There's some days, which are great. Some days, it's really challenging, whether that's part and parcel of having a business and having a team. But yeah, I'm pretty confident in that the processes that we've got around communication and workflows and and everybody kind of knows, on the whole what's going on, that we can do the best job wherever we are. Amazing. So if there was someone say like your friends who are always asking you like, how do I do it? what's what? Or what do I not do? So what would you say is like the biggest mistake you see, like people deciding to work abroad and freelance Is there something you think no, don't do that? What are the things that I think is definitely worth the investment? We just had this conversation as well is a decent computer if you're gonna go work remote, invest in that decent computer because you don't want to be? Yeah, in the middle of nowhere, enjoying your travels, and then your battery goes off. Today, something else happens. So the technology side of it definitely invested in a good computer. The do's, I would say go for it. I think life is short. Enjoy it, enjoy it. And and yeah, go and explore the world. I don't think there is anything really negative. It's hard work for sure. That so is being freelance if you're in the same place. So it's just making sure that you don't over promise and under deliver more than anything. If you are starting out your freelance career, and you're starting out, I guess being an ads manager, and you're trying to learn the skill while trying to get clients while you're throwing in that douche or no man aspect could be very stressful. So it might be six months down the line, you are adding the travelling part of it. So we're just trying not to do too much at once. Which can be a little hard if you're desperate to go travelling. I think that's such good advice. So walk before you can run. Yeah, that's yeah, definitely lose all your clients, you will have no money. Yeah. And just like a general question that I'd like added into series, two of the podcast or Season Two of the podcast. What's been your biggest lesson since you've gone freelance and is there something like that? Would you pass that lesson on like as as as advice to someone that's just starting out? I can't say too, if that's of course. My first one I touched on it earlier is find a community like that, for me was a big game changer from going freelance was I didn't really know anybody freelance when I first went freelance. And I was figuring so much out and really wish back then I'd had somebody that had done it before. And could give me advice on taxes and how to charge people and any processes that I need to have in place all of that side of it. So there's so many different communities that you could be part of if you're a ads manager, the freelance Arts Club, obviously, Danny but honestly, the freelance ads like ads club sorry, you can ask so many questions like nothing is too silly to ask him in there and everybody's got different experiences. So I think like if you're starting out wanting to be a digital nomad ads manager come come in there come and speak to us. Can I just say I just get interrupted quickly I have not paid Danny to say this. So thank you very much daddy. That's a plug for lots of different communities but they're all given their own way but I do think if you want to be a dancer manager freelance Come on Come and join us there so yeah, community is is definitely like the the main thing that I would say and then I've totally forgotten totally ruined your train of thought having I'm so sorry. That asked me the question again, and then it will come to me. So what was your biggest lesson from going freelance and would you how would you kind of pack Start off with some advice for someone that's just getting started. As a community, that is definitely one. The second one was confidence. Like, I think having confidence in yourself. And what you do can be very challenging when you're freelance. And really sort of a, you might have lots of confidence from from knowing exactly what you do from a previous life. But I do think coming out and understanding sort of what you're offering is, can be quite hard and quite sort of scary. So I think make sure you've got confidence in what you do. And you'll find it along the way, you're not going to have all the answers from day one, like nobody would does. And everything changes, especially when the in the ads world it changes pretty much daily. So I think yeah, having having competence in what you do is something that will come. So don't be too scared of not having all the answers from day one, they will figure itself out and you'll be totally fine. That's such good advice as well, like everything is figure out a book. There's a lot of learning that happens. I don't think it ever stops. I think there's always things you can't read every day, you're like, I need to just figure this out. So I don't know, I don't know the answer is something to do with running a business that you figure out or it's something to do with ads that changes something in digital or change pretty much on a daily basis. So I love it when people say they're experts, because I just can't understand how you can forever changing. But yeah, we like to we like to keep on top of things. So it definitely keeps us on our toes. That's for sure. Yeah, yeah. So Danny, this has been fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge on travelling and working at the same time. I know it's definitely one of the perks of being a freelancer, you're not really well an ads manager Freelancer is definitely you know, you're not tied to one location, which is amazing. If someone listening to this would like to get in touch with you, where's the best place for them to reach out so come on to LinkedIn. And I'm Danny do Dublin I was born without a you. And yeah covered Ask away if you've got any questions about being a digital nomad or come and join us in the freelance Arts Club. I promise I didn't pay her. Thanks so much for your time, Danny. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the freelance as club podcast. If you're a freelance ads manager, don't forget to download the free Client Onboarding Trello you can find in the show notes. If you're a brand or agency looking for support from one of our community, visit our website at the freelance ads club.com to access our member directory. Tune in next time