#11 How to 'just' knock up a quiz for your next client, with Kylie Lang

Aggie Meroni: 0:05

Welcome to the freelance ABS club podcast with me your host Aggie Meroni. Whether you're a seasoned freelance ads manager, or just thinking about taking the leap into self-employment, this podcast is for you. Every week, I'll be releasing a bite-sized episode, I'll be sharing mistakes I've made and lessons I've learned from my own freelance business. I'll be showcasing some of the amazingly talented freelancers in the freelance ads club. And I also will be speaking to some incredible guests who generously be sharing their knowledge with us to help us keep updated with industry trends. And I hope that after listening to this podcast, you will come away full of confidence on how to win great clients, how to charge correctly, and most importantly, retain those dream clients so that you build a successful and sustainable business. Welcome to Episode 11 of the freelance ads club Podcast. Today I've invited Kylie Lang to join me to talk all about quizzes, I will leave Kylie to introduce herself and explain exactly what she does and how she got there. But my path crossed with Kylie when she was referred to me as a client for her previous business, which she will also touch on as well. And I saw firsthand the power the ads have when they run quizzes for business. I've noticed that more and more businesses are investigating using quizzes as a way to build their email lists, and also generate sales. Not only am I served ads to quizzes more often now, but I'm also hearing that businesses are requesting ads managers to build quizzes for them, which isn't strictly an ad managers job. But we do have many strings to our bows. So I thought it'd be useful to get Kylie in for a chat and hear from her what it takes to create an effective quiz, and to know what strategy you need to consider when you're looking to run ads to a quiz because not only will you be thinking about your ad strategy, but then there's the wider quiz strategy as well. So listen to hear what we talked about. Hi, Kylie, thank you so much for joining me today.

Kylie Lang: 2:33

Thank you for having me. I'm always excited to talk to you.

Aggie Meroni: 2:37

So the way I usually start when I'm speaking to a guest, rather than speaking to myself, is just to ask you, who you are and how you ended up doing what you're doing now?

Unknown: 2:49

No worries. My name is Kylie, Kylie Lang, otherwise known as the quiz queen. I am known as a quiz funnel strategist, which most people will kind of scratch their heads and go, What the hell's that? Do you do pop quizzes, you know, what do you do? No, I don't do pop quizzes. What I do is create quizzes that are a lead magnet, but I don't just do the quiz, I do the entire funnel. So we're talking everything from strategy to emails to tech to copywriting, to creating the quiz itself. So it's quite a big thing. There's a lot of moving parts involved.

Kylie Lang: 3:27

I got into this, blimey, it must be about six years ago. I had a digital course company, which I no longer have. But it was around 2017 when we realised with that company that we could no longer rely on just being found organically in Google searches, which is up until that point, how we'd been found. And we needed to do something called a lead magnet. And I was like, what's that? I started exploring, I don't want to do anything that's boring. I don't want to do a checklist. That's boring. And that's how I discovered quizzes. Quite by chance I created this quiz. And oh my god, within about a month, we'd had something like 1000 leads go through it. And I didn't even really know what I was doing. So suffice to say I tweaked my process. I got really educated on the whole quiz business and I actually got mentored by Ryan Levesque, who is the granddaddy of the quiz funnel and learnt my trade and being a copywriter. Anyway, for somebody who loves telling stories, quizzes were just absolutely my jam. And I decided that I wanted to help other people do it. And so I launched the quiz funnel formula, which is basically my process for building a quiz. I work one on one with clients with a 'done for you' service. And I also have a course and I've been doing it now for a few years and absolutely love it. So yeah, in a nutshell. That's how it all happened.

Aggie Meroni: 5:01

It's definitely your passion. Kylie and I have actually worked together before, so I know exactly how detailed she is. And to be honest, the actual putting together a quiz completely blows my mind. It just scrambles my brain. So I'm in total awe when I've see one of Kylie's quizzes. I find them interesting as well, because they're not really niche specific. You work with clients across so many varied niches. Don't you want to just talk a little bit about that?

Kylie Lang: 5:33

Yeah, actually, it's a really good question, because so many times people say to me, Oh, I don't know if a quiz is right for my business. And I've got to be honest, I haven't actually yet come across a business where a quiz doesn't work. I've just done an Ecommerce client. My latest client, and I've never done an Ecommerce quiz before. But she's cool. She's an artist, and her art is really funky. And so we've created collections. And those are her quiz results. And with those results, you know, dependent upon whether or not users like stars, or blossom and bloom, or I can't remember the other two off the top my head, they then get a collection put together specifically for the types of things that they like and what appeals to them. Then I have people for example, I've just had a dating coach launch her quiz. I've got an interior designer who's launching next week, I've had people who are authors who have done a book launch using a quiz, two or three different marketing coaches who have used a quiz to identify what's holding people back. I've had somebody who helps speakers to be better speakers and make presentations that don't suck. She has a presentation suck metre, which is absolutely hilarious when you can imagine how much fun I have with that one. And then I've had an opera singer, I have had a indie musician, turned business coach for indie musicians, a Podcast Producer. And now I've got somebody else coming on who is a podcast launch strategist. So we're gonna be working together at the beginning of the year. Mystics, I've literally just signed somebody up who works with mystics to make money. It will be so much fun doing that. Nutrition certification coaches, honestly, you name it, I'm open to it. Let's put it that way.

Aggie Meroni: 7:31

I remember the first time we started working together, and you were telling me about the first time that you ran a quiz for your own business. And the results you had were just insane, weren't they? And this is why in my view, and maybe you've got different experience of this, this is so powerful with ads, which is why we obviously worked together. Because you can run traffic campaigns, the cheapest type of campaign just to drive people to the landing page. Its like the gamification of it, people enjoy it and, it just feels more fun for people to complete the quiz.

Kylie Lang: 8:09

It does. And I mean, it all comes down to how you position the quiz, obviously, as to whether or not you're going to get that traffic. And that's where you have to think through all the elements. I'm sure we'll talk about that in a moment. But going back to the ad side of things, yeah, when we first launched quiz ads for the digital course company, we managed to get our ad cost down as cheap as 10 cents per lead, which is insane. And as you say, it was a traffic ad campaign, because we don't need to retarget with a quiz, because that is all done in the back end. And with the way iOS 14 has been working, we can also collect lots and lots of data, we collect what I call zero party data that we can then use and feed back into Facebook, where we can't get it from Facebook anymore, like we used to be able to. So a quiz once you get it going and you've got that data, you can then use that to get really specific with your audiences where you no longer can in the same way as we used to be able to with Facebook ads. So yeah, it's a very cheap way to run ads. But you still need to have the good ad design, you still need to have a great call to action. And more importantly than anything else with the ads is the quiz title. You have to have a title that evokes curiosity. It's clickable, but more than anything else, it has to answer a question, you know, your audience are dying to find out the answer to. That's the crux of it all and then combining that with curiosity and clickability even if that's a word. I'm claiming it,'clickability'. There we go. And then you have to make sure that whole thing comes together seamlessly otherwise it just doesn't work. So it's that hook that brings people in. And it's weird because it has to be, we're always talking about being really specific with our audiences, we talk about niching down. But with a quiz title, that title actually has to be quite generic from the point of view of your audience, because usually, your audience come to you because they've got a specific problem, and you solve that problem. But that problem can exist for a variety of different reasons. So what you've got to do with your quiz title is hit on that generic problem, and then your quiz outcomes, dig deeper into why that problem exists. So you've got to really understand the framework of a quiz to be able to put it together in a way that people can't wait to give you the name and email address.

Aggie Meroni: 10:51

Do you have any examples? Or what would you say would make a good quiz title?

Kylie Lang: 10:58

Okay, so let's use my dating coach because she has just launched. And we've literally use the title, Single and stuck; discover your dating DNA and get the relationship you deserve. So to put it into perspective, my client is actually an MD, so she is a doctor. And so she went to med school, etc, etc. So she actually has now decided to become a dating coach for career women, women who work hard, who have amazing careers, but don't always have the time to spend on social life. So dating DNA kind of works with the fact that she is Dr. Tony. I had a lot of fun playing around with things like genetic code, dating DNA, getting your dating diagnosis, and you can just imagine how much fun I have playing around with that. And she's quite ballsy, she really tells it like it is. And so there's no beating around the bush with her. So I also wanted to make sure that her personality came across straightaway. Because if you didn't like that you weren't going to like her. And we didn't want to be bringing in leads that weren't going to be the right fit for her. So it was quite a ballsy title 'Single and Stuck'. And it does work really well. So that's an example of a good quiz headline that is creative. It's curiosity based, it's speaking to the problem the audience has. And it's also a highlight of the personality of the person behind the quiz as well.

Aggie Meroni: 12:35

It's this attention to detail that actually blows my mind when it comes to quizzes. Because there's so much to think about. I mean, I'm great at the ad part. But when it comes to actually creating the ad, and all the elements and the tree underneath. So if you say yes and no to that. And then what that leads to, which I guess kind of leads us to our next question, how long should a quiz be?

Kylie Lang: 13:01

That is a really good question. And this is where I see people go wrong, we have to remember people's attention spans now are so short, you know, attention span of a flea. It's so easy to go, oh, look, there's something new over there so you have to bear that in mind when you're putting together a quiz. But it's not even about the length of the questions. It's about the journey, the questions take you on. So I always think of my quiz questions, a bit like a story arc. So if you picked up a book and you started reading, you wouldn't get thrown into the meat of the plot first, because you'd wonder what the hell was going on. It'll be too much too soon. You're always introduce the characters first. Your first couple of questions have to sort of lay the groundwork, introductory style questions. So things like'What's your zone of genius', that type of thing. We're finding out who you are, what you do, then we get to the meat of the plot. So the next set of questions have to be meaningful. They have to make you feel like you're about to reveal something amazing. And you're going to find out something so much so that you want to keep going and answer these questions. So there has to be that feeling of usefulness, the fact that these questions are taking you on some kind of journey of discovery, self discovery, because we all want to learn something about ourselves, right? So this is the job of those questions. And that's the majority of your questions. Of course, with that arc, you're then coming down to a point when you're reading a book, where you go, Oh my God, I hope there's a sequel to this book. And that's the point when they go, Oh my God, I've got to give you my name and email address to get these results. So that's kind of what you're looking at doing. But to go back to your question about how many, how many is too many, or how long should it be? My sweet spot is 10. I love a quiz with 10 questions. I've done some with just eight or nine and they work really well because I don't believe in asking questions for asking questions sake, people don't have time, and they're gonna get that feeling of how many more have I got to answer to get to the end? We don't ever want them to feel like that. We want them to feel that story and 10 works really, really well and with questions, and this is something to bear in mind, because it's really important. There's three different types of questions. You've got diagnosis, non diagnosis, and visualisation. So diagnosis pretty much as it sounds, they're the questions that diagnose you into a particular outcome. And your outcomes. By the way, you need at least three, I recommend four or five. So the diagnosis questions, if you were having 10 questions, you're likely to have four or five diagnosis questions, then you come to the non diagnosis questions. And these are my absolute favourites, because they're not about them. They're about you. So the non diagnosis questions are the way you learn about your audience. So I always like to think of it from a perspective of, if I knew X, about my ideal client, it would allow me to sell more of what I'm selling. So what would it help you to know about your ideal clients that you could sell more? So one question might be, how do you make your buying decisions? Are you somebody that buys on FOMO? Are you somebody that does your research? Are you a stalker? You know, how do you make your buying decisions, because how you sell to somebody who buys on FOMO is going to be very different to how you sell to somebody who does their research, they're not going to react well to a countdown timer at the top of their email saying this disappears in 48 hours, they're just not going to react well to that and you'll lose them. So that's just one example of a question that you might want to use. Let's say for example, for you, you might want to know which ad platform they're more interested in finding out about. So one of your questions might be, are you more on Instagram person, Facebook person or Pinterest person? Because I know you do ads for all three? So that would be a really good question to have within your quiz because the person that says Pinterest, you can send them a load of information as you're going through the nurturing side of things about Pinterest ads. Why would you send them stuff about Instagram if they're totally interested in Pinterest? So that's how you use your diagnosis questions. And then there's one visualisation question and the idea behind it is that you're planting a seed ever so subtly, slightly manipulative, of what life would be like, if they no longer have their problem. And you are the solution to that problem. So that's the last question as you're leaving that, wouldn't it be wonderful type thing in their mind. So sorry, I went off on an absolute tangent there. But questions, oh, my God, you know, they are so powerful. This is where a quiz comes into its own. Because once you know this stuff, you can then use this to make sure that you meet your leads, where they are at in their journey. Don't send them generic crap, send them something that actually makes them want to open their emails, you know, because once you know this information, just by pulling in little pieces of custom fields and conditional content, I'm getting a bit technical here, but you know, you can really make a quiz simple, because it's all about specificity. It's about targeted marketing, it's about meeting them where they're at, and really giving them information that's specific to where they are in their journey.

Aggie Meroni: 18:43

I think that's such an important point as well because this is how it ties in so well with ads. And as you know, I usually work with ecommerce brands, and there's such commonality, how this works obviously drives people to the quiz and then so much of the nurturing happens afterwards. So you know, each answer will trigger a different automation and they'll get those emails depending on how they open the emails, if they buy something from the emails they get up sold or down sold or put into a Facebook group or however it is that you work with them after. I've seen a lot of businesses, ecommerce businesses adopting quizzes now because they can really target which collections or product that they can focus on and sell more of, I guess, it's quite forward thinking still in Ecommerce. It's not that common yet, but it's something more and more that I've noticed personally.

Kylie Lang: 19:42

Definitely, it used to be the bigger brands like Sephora, one of the first ones to really adopt it. Warby Parker, the opticians, adopted a really good quiz as well. And you're exactly right. It was about being able to collate these collections so that you could make specific recommendations based on how somebody answered the quiz questions. And that's the same with my artist, you know, this is what we're doing, we are sending them collections that will appeal to the type of things that they enjoy. But you do have a lot of the smaller brands who are embracing this idea of being able to send very targeted products to people based on what they like. We had a quick chat before we started recording, and I was sharing with you that in our Slack channel for the freelance ads club, we've had quite a few questions recently about quizzes. And some times smaller brands that are just dipping their toe into quizzes, the ads manager kind of takes it on as a first time exercise. And there's a bit overwhelm with what they need to do, because it's not really an ADS thing, you know. What would your advice be to poor ads manager who have been confronted with putting their first quiz together? Is there anything that they must consider when they first put something together like this? So whenever I'm creating a quiz, I always start with the end goal in mind. So you reverse engineer everything. And never ever, ever, ever, ever do the questions first, they come last. So the first thing you're going to do is ascertain what that goal is. Is that goal to buy something? Is that goal to watch a webinar, is that goal to follow or go into a Facebook group, you need to know what the end goal is. So from the clients perspective, what is the ultimate thing they want somebody to do once they've gone through the quiz and the nurture campaign. Now, nine times out of 10 people aren't ready to buy, not if it's a higher ticket, item or service, they're not ready to buy at the end of the quiz. If it's a smaller price product for Ecommerce, yes, they quite probably are. So you need to know what that end goal is. Because until you know the end goal, you can't put a strategy together. So that strategy has to be at the back of your mind when you're creating the quiz. And then the first thing you want to do is what I was explaining earlier on, which is think about what is that clickable quiz topic. Now, unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to make quizzes work for you. Because you have to, you have to do your research on the audience. When I'm working with a client, I have to almost become that client, I have to know and understand their audience, I have to know and understand their product and the solution that they have for the problem their audience has. And I have to kind of morph into them in order to be able to put together a quiz that hits on those pain points, keeping the audience engaged and making them want to carry on through the quiz. And not only that, once they get the other side to the results, the results are where we really push it and we really pack it with value. So for me a quiz results page, when I write it out, is where it starts. And it was funny, actually, because I was working with one of my clients, a web designer the other day and he goes, Wow, your quiz result page has 14 pages on a Google document. Yeah, I know, there's a lot of information on that. Because what you're trying to do is build an emotional connection, create, know, like trust, give value, give quick wins, give some action steps, and then give a call to action. And that doesn't happen quickly. I do have a course, that walks you through all of these things Let me give you an example. I always use this one because a lot of people can relate to this. But if you were a visibility coach, then the overriding question is something along the lines of what's holding you back from being more if you're not ready for somebody to come and actually do it all visible. Now that's not particularly sexy title, but let's use that as a working title. Now, the reason that problem exists might be confidence. It might be I don't have the equipment.They're very different things. And the way you speak to somebody who's lacking in confidence, so they don't want to be visible, is going to be very different to for you. Because it's not an easy process. There are a lot of the way you speak to somebody who says I just don't have the equipment to put myself out there and be visible. They're totally different. So this is where really understanding what the pain points of your audience are and why they exist and how you can solve it really comes into being then you write your quiz results. So yeah, then you do your questions. And then of course, that leads into your CRM, where you're going to moving parts. There are steps that you need to do before deliver that nurture campaign. But part of the value of a quiz isn't just about the quiz itself, it's about the entire funnel. You need to be able to understand how to take the information from the quiz, map it into your CRM, create little custom fields and conditional content around that. So that is how you send people really targeted emails. So for example, one of my emails uses the fact that I know people are either a anything else. Like I said, your questions come last. So the service provider or a coach, a course creator. So I will send to them in their emails little bits of conditional content and custom fields. I know you're a coach. And I know that your goal for 2023 is to build your email list. And I know this because I've asked her that question. And that was how she answered that question. But just by using little snippets of code I've suddenly gone from saying, I'm going to help you to have an amazing year next year, to, I know you're a coach, and you first thing is your quiz topic, then your description, then you want to build your email list next year, or it might have been that she was a course creator, and you wanted to have a sell out launch. But by using little bits of code, which has been dragged in from the quiz platform, I can now send very targeted emails, but I don't need to create X amount of emails in order to do that, one email using custom fields. And conditional content allows me to send specific emails to people based on what their quiz results were. Now that all sounds really overwhelming. But in my course, the quiz funnel, I walk you through step by step. So it just gives you an idea as to what's need to decide on what those outcomes are going to be. So involved. It isn't an easy throw-it-together lead magnet. But then the good things in life aren't easy, are they? They're hard. There's a reason that not everybody does this, but when you spend the time to get this, right. Oh, my goodness. For example, I'm a quiz funnel strategist. Naturally my lead magnet is a quiz. Now, I have gone all out on this quiz. Because naturally, I want people to see the very best of what I what is the underlying problem underneath this big question do. It's very rare when someone has gone through my quiz and booked a discovery call that they don't then book me, because they've seen the value of what I provide. So imagine if you could do that with your quiz. And you could show people the value of what it would be like to work with you, as a Facebook Ads Manager by going through all of these different quiz results. And getting very specific, let's say your quiz was about, what are people struggling with with their ads? Well, everybody struggles with different things. For me, it's that whole business that your quiz is asking, how many underlying problems are there? manager thing, I take one look and want to run for the hills, not my bag at all. Other people, it might be the design of the adverts. For other people it might be how do I write the copy. But if you're able to then send them quiz results and emails that speak to that direct problem, because if you're somebody that gets the whole dashboard thing, unlike me, then you're not gonna want to be told how to fix that problem. Kylie, I can reassure you now that you're not the only one that doesn't understand business manager. Oh, it does my head in. I take one look. And I'm like, brain fog and gone. I can do all the tech side on Active Campaign and that doesn't befuddle me. It's just ads manager. Yuck.

Aggie Meroni: 28:52

You touched in your answer before about the quiz platform, is there any software that you use. Your actual preference?

Kylie Lang: 29:00

There's 2 actually that I use, and it really depends on where the person is at with their business. So my favourite is Interact. The simple reason it plays very, very nicely with Active Campaign, which is my favourite CRM, it plays nicely with quite a few CRM it's just that Active Campaign is cleverer than the rest of them. Plus, it allows you to redirect your quiz results to pages on your website, you can embed the quiz on your website, and that's always going to be preferable. You always want to have people going to your website, rather than a quiz platform apart from anything else, the kind of URLs that Interact spit out impossible to remember, you know, you want something along the lines of Kylielang.com/quiz, really easy to talk about and really easy to remember. If you don't have an all singing dancing website and a really strong brand, then another really good platform is Score app, and I partner with them as well. Their brilliant Score app is run by Daniel Priestley. So open to adding in various different things. I've asked them for many different changes, which almost seem to appear instantly. It's amazing. And I love working with people like that. But the whole thing is managed on their platform. And their URLs are a lot more readable than others. But this is good if you don't want to have to go to the expense of designing quiz results pages, because they're all housed within the app, it's drag and drop. There's lots of great features. No, you don't have the same flexibility over the branding and the style and the look and the feel as you would if it was on your own website. But it's pretty good considering it's not a website platform. And it's a quiz platform. So Score app is great as an all in one platform and Interact is really good if you are somebody who has a strong brand, a solid website, and you want everything housed on your website, and you're happy to design those pages accordingly.

Aggie Meroni: 30:57

And we can add links to those two platforms in the show notes. People can have a look at those. I know that some ads managers have spoken about Typeform for quizzes, is that something you'd recommend?

Kylie Lang: 31:10

No, it's not bad. It just isn't a proper quiz platform in the same way as those other two are. But Typeform also does have the ability to bring information into Active Campaign, but it's just not as clever. There's not as much you can do with it.

Aggie Meroni: 31:28

Now it's good to know, just because I know that's something that kind of people get in worried about.

Unknown: 31:33

Typeform is what I used for my first one. And it still did well. It's just things have not progressed since then. Typeform is great for surveys.

Aggie Meroni: 31:44

It's good to know your options, as well as isn't it, that there's more specific software available that will help you to get the results collated.

Kylie Lang: 31:55

Yeah, definitely.

Aggie Meroni: 31:57

So are there any mistakes that you see when you see someone else's quiz? You think, oh, gosh, that's such a simple error. Why have they done that?

Kylie Lang: 32:07

Oh, my goodness, I see that all the time. Yeah, I have certainly seen quite a few. Usually, the biggest one is not focusing on really beautifully detailed, thought provoking, well-written results, because you should spend the time getting these quiz results. To give you an idea, it can take me two to three days to write one quiz results page for clients. So that's how long I take over it, I agonise over them. But once you've got all that juicy information that you've written, it can then be repurposed in the emails. It can be repurposed on social media, it just gives you so much fodder. So that's the first thing I see, people just not putting enough time and attention into the quiz results. When we look at the quiz if not, we think is that it? You've asked me all these questions, and I've got nothing at the end of it. So you feel disappointed and let down. And that is not how you want somebody to be feeling at the end of it. The other big problem, which we've already addressed, is making people answer about 20-25 questions, going, enough now just take me to the results. So that will put people off as well. And not knowing your audience or having a strong offer at the end of it. So when I work with a client, they have to know who their ideal client is, they have to have tried and tested offers. Otherwise, they're not really at the stage where a quiz is gonna do them any good. You need to really understand who that audience is, what their pain points are, what their challenges are, and how you can help them otherwise, how are you going to create a quiz? So I often see quizzes that are what I call fluff based on nothing. This is just not leading anywhere. And there's not a lot of questions, it might be that there's seven questions. So you know, the number of questions is okay, but it's all fluffy stuff. Like, if you could describe yourself as a celebrity couple, which one would you be? Yeah, okay, one of those questions is fine. But then when the others are all similar, it's fluff. And you feel like you're just not going anywhere. And I can't be bothered to complete them. And usually, the quiz results that follow are also fluff based, too.

Aggie Meroni: 34:30

Yeah, I guess it's so important to get the tone and content, right because it's the first impression so many people have your business. And it's not something you just want them to feel, that they've wasted their time.

Kylie Lang: 34:49

Usually with a quiz, you want to let it run for a good three months. It's like anything, you have to collect the data, first of all, to be able to analyse where there might be some holes or leaks in the funnel. And usually, it could be something quite simple, like the positioning of a question. You know, quite often people are asking the heavy questions in the wrong place. And just by either taking a question out, or reordering the question slightly, that can fix the problem. But in all honesty, most of my quizzes, they have very low drop off rates simply because we have spent so long upfront on the research phase, and really understanding the audience, what they want to learn how we can help them etc. And like I said, if you get those questions, right, you're not going to see the drop off rate that you might do.

Aggie Meroni: 37:48

That's where it gets so tricky. The more moving parts there are, because it can take so long to test. You have to test everything so methodically and every stage. So it's not just the ads that you have to test, then it's the quiz, then the emails and the offers, although you should have tested those already. But I can see how it can become a beast, but it's so worth it because people are just so sick and tired of PDF downloads, the lead magnets, and I'm guilty of it, I have them on my website as well.

Kylie Lang: 38:20

They definitely have their time and place I think the problem is, is with COVID because people have nothing else to do, they were downloading things for fun, but they've got wise to it. Now they know that these things are usually pretty flimsy at the best of times, they're not really value packed, they're certainly not specific. They're not targeted to who you are and what your problem is. They're just generic. And I think people are seeing through that. I think there's still definitely room for them. But we tend to use them more as little extras within our email nurture sequence, rather than alone, so if a client has got a good ebook, or like, for example, my dating coach, Dr. Tony, she has the five mistakes you make in dating or whatever, I repurpose that as a blog post for her for a start, to get the SEO going for the quiz. And then we actually give that ebook away in one of our hit reply emails as a thank you for hitting reply. So we're still utilising it, we're not wasting it. I've used it in all sorts of different ways, because that's the other thing here, not everybody wants to run ads to their quiz. And even if they are running ads to a quiz, you still need to think about the organic traffic as well. So you want to think about how are you going to promote your quiz, the old 'build it and they'll come' doesn't work. You've got to be promoting it consistently all the time. SEO is one of the biggest things and we focus heavily on Pinterest to help with that SEO. But we have a promo package that we use for our clients. And that includes me writing between two to three blog posts that utilise some of the quiz results, utilise other PDFs and things that they might have. I then turn them into SEO blog posts, which continue to drive traffic. But as you know, things like that they develop over time. SEO is like a fine wine, it gets better over time, and it takes its time to mature. Whereas your ads are an instant fix. But the minute you turn them off, poof, it's gone. So the combination of ads and all that organic is really powerful. You want to be doing both together. So it's just something else to think about, along with everything else. When it comes to creating a quiz, one of the first things I do when I start a quiz for a client is not actually thinking about the quiz title, I can do SEO research, first of all, because I need to know, what is the question around what my client does? What's the question, people are typing into Google? What are they looking for? I go to Answer The Public, all these different places to do my SEO research first. So we know that people are searching for the way we're positioning that quiz.

Aggie Meroni: 41:08

So interesting, because as ads managers, I think that everyone that listens to this is an ads manager, I think we're always trying to hammer home that message to our clients as well. It's not just the ads, you need to think about the big picture as well. So I think that reinforces that message when you have a quiz as well. It's not all on the ads manager to get all the results, you know, even just having a banner on your website. So people visit your website, they know that the quiz is there, they can see on your home page, you know, come and take the quiz message. So it's in their faces, wherever they look at your business.

Kylie Lang: 41:43

Absolutely, it should be in your email signature, it should be in every single bio, for every single social media platform that you're on, it should be in the footer of your website, it should be on a static banner on your website, like, literally everywhere. If you've got a podcast like this one, it should be the call to action at the end of every single podcast episode with a nice banner, so that it's there in your face and easy to see, you should be emailing it out to your list on a regular basis, only certain amount of your emails will get opened. And it can just be in your signature or even better. Use the PS strategy as it works. A lot of people scroll to the bottom of an email. And if you see a PS, if you take my quiz to find out blahdy blahdy, blah, blah, you'll be amazed how many people click on that link. So there are a lot of things that you can do organically to support what your ads manager is doing.

Aggie Meroni: 42:36

So interesting. And it's just well, the ads geek in me and like the geeky me, which I think is why we get on, we always talk about these things. Yeah, it just is all connected. Like, you know, every single marketing strategy you might take up for your client, even for your own business. The principles are the same, but you never put your eggs in one basket. And you know, whether you're just managing ads for a client, or they've asked you to, you know, knock up a quiz, that's always my favourite phrase that you know, when a client says, Can you just knock this up for me? Yeah right, it will take me a month. Yeah, that's how quickly it takes, you know, to knock something up. This has been so so useful. I'm sure that whoever listens to this, is gonna take so much away. And I'm sure when quizzes cross their professional path at some point, they're more aware of them, when they come across them, whether they're served ads or whether they visit someone else's website. They will be like, Oh, let me just take the quiz just to see if any of these principles have been put into practice. Yeah. If their clients say to them, right, I need a quiz for my business. You can help, obviously, so if they're in a pickle, they can check out your course, we're going to add the link in the show notes. Or if the client just needs really specific support, then obviously, people can get in touch with you directly to see if you can support them one to one as well. So thank you once again, Kylie. Such a great chat. I know we'll be in touch soon.

Kylie Lang: 44:19

Thank you for having me. We never go without having a chat. So all good. But no, thank you so much for having me. And, you know, if you really do want to see a good quiz out there in the wild, as I say, then take mine, have a look at it and then you will see how all the strategies I've just talked about are put into place. So I'm sure Aggie will share that with you in the show notes.

Aggie Meroni: 44:46

Well, thanks, Kylie.

Kylie Lang: 44:48

No worries. Have a good one. Thank you.

Aggie Meroni: 44:53

Thank you so much for listening to the episode with Kylie. I'm sure you took a lot from it. If you're a freelance ads manager and are keen to join our free Slack community, then please find the application form at the link in the show notes. If you're an agency looking for support with your ads and your projects, you can also find your application form in the link in the show notes. Until next time.